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	<title>Comments on: Another example of how reality is now an option</title>
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	<link>http://secretlivesofscientists.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/another-example-of-how-reality-is-now-an-option/</link>
	<description>Scientists and social graces are un-mixy things</description>
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		<title>By: secretlivesofscientists</title>
		<link>http://secretlivesofscientists.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/another-example-of-how-reality-is-now-an-option/#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>secretlivesofscientists</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 01:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secretlivesofscientists.wordpress.com/?p=376#comment-212</guid>
		<description>Judd sez:
&quot;It&#039;s bad but it says 9.6 million families are low income, which is 28% of the total (according to al-AP).  That means there are 34,285,714 and 2/7 families in the US.  If you divide the approximate population (300,000,000) by that exact number of families you get exactly 8 3/4 people per family in the United States.  Exactly 8.75.  I do believe someone has carefully massaged the data to obtain a desired outcome.  And it was MSDNC that reported this?
 
I would also ask about how many of those 9.6 million low income families are in this country illegally but that would probably make me a bigot.&quot;

welcome to my blog, Judd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judd sez:<br />
&#8220;It&#8217;s bad but it says 9.6 million families are low income, which is 28% of the total (according to al-AP).  That means there are 34,285,714 and 2/7 families in the US.  If you divide the approximate population (300,000,000) by that exact number of families you get exactly 8 3/4 people per family in the United States.  Exactly 8.75.  I do believe someone has carefully massaged the data to obtain a desired outcome.  And it was MSDNC that reported this?</p>
<p>I would also ask about how many of those 9.6 million low income families are in this country illegally but that would probably make me a bigot.&#8221;</p>
<p>welcome to my blog, Judd.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://secretlivesofscientists.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/another-example-of-how-reality-is-now-an-option/#comment-211</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 01:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secretlivesofscientists.wordpress.com/?p=376#comment-211</guid>
		<description>I LOVE the idea of &quot;Hate-on-the-media&quot; Day.  Like National Ammo Day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I LOVE the idea of &#8220;Hate-on-the-media&#8221; Day.  Like National Ammo Day.</p>
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		<title>By: secretlivesofscientists</title>
		<link>http://secretlivesofscientists.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/another-example-of-how-reality-is-now-an-option/#comment-210</link>
		<dc:creator>secretlivesofscientists</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 23:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secretlivesofscientists.wordpress.com/?p=376#comment-210</guid>
		<description>All good points there. I still think the AP wanted to intentionally mislead me, but that judgement could be tainted by the fact that I think the associated press is a bunch of dirty tricksters.

As far as what you said about where our &quot;relatively poor&quot; people ranks on the global scale, and the minimum wage shenanigans, you get a big &quot;aaaaaand how.&quot;

The minimum wage is not supposed to support entire families! If you are older than 20 and can&#039;t advance beyond a minimum wage job, you&#039;re either a complete moron, or you haven&#039;t learned how to show up to work not-drunk. Or maybe both. 

I&#039;ve been called callous about my stance, but I have a hard time sympathizing with people who aren&#039;t driven to better themselves. I&#039;m not saying the poor should be expected to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but do as nature intended and fight for survival already. If I had to squeeze $400 extra bones out of my monthly salary to afford night classes or a car so that I could do better than working at the local fast food chain, I could do it. I live on a grad student stipend and yet I managed to save up  about 3000 dollars to go to Europe, plus I fly to Tucson every other month, plus I get an hour long massage every other week. Not to mention I eat fancy shmancy fresh produce, plus I buy expensive guns. 

Sowell talks about how the aid programs aren&#039;t factored in to the income of these low-income families, and how, like you said, if you account for government assistance, we have the richest poor people in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All good points there. I still think the AP wanted to intentionally mislead me, but that judgement could be tainted by the fact that I think the associated press is a bunch of dirty tricksters.</p>
<p>As far as what you said about where our &#8220;relatively poor&#8221; people ranks on the global scale, and the minimum wage shenanigans, you get a big &#8220;aaaaaand how.&#8221;</p>
<p>The minimum wage is not supposed to support entire families! If you are older than 20 and can&#8217;t advance beyond a minimum wage job, you&#8217;re either a complete moron, or you haven&#8217;t learned how to show up to work not-drunk. Or maybe both. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been called callous about my stance, but I have a hard time sympathizing with people who aren&#8217;t driven to better themselves. I&#8217;m not saying the poor should be expected to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but do as nature intended and fight for survival already. If I had to squeeze $400 extra bones out of my monthly salary to afford night classes or a car so that I could do better than working at the local fast food chain, I could do it. I live on a grad student stipend and yet I managed to save up  about 3000 dollars to go to Europe, plus I fly to Tucson every other month, plus I get an hour long massage every other week. Not to mention I eat fancy shmancy fresh produce, plus I buy expensive guns. </p>
<p>Sowell talks about how the aid programs aren&#8217;t factored in to the income of these low-income families, and how, like you said, if you account for government assistance, we have the richest poor people in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://secretlivesofscientists.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/another-example-of-how-reality-is-now-an-option/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://secretlivesofscientists.wordpress.com/?p=376#comment-209</guid>
		<description>You missed one thing: that&#039;s 9.8M families, not 9.8M people.

However, it&#039;s still a stretch to think that 9.8M / 28% = 35M families equates to 300M people.  That would be an average of ~8.5 people/family.  I don&#039;t think so.

Also remember that what they call &quot;poverty&quot; is not absolute poverty.  Instead, it&#039;s poverty relative to the population mean.  By definition, it will never go to zero unless we all earn the same wage.

If you&#039;ve ever traveled outside the U.S., say Mexico, parts of the Caribbean, the Middle East, etc., then you&#039;ve probably seen people who know what real, absolute poverty is and would dearly love to be upgraded to being &quot;relatively&quot; poor here.

Finally, they don&#039;t consider the effects of all the aid programs low-income families are eligible for.  If they take full advantage of the largess of government and private aid programs, they&#039;ll be much better off that the raw number suggest.

Oh yeah, low-skill, low-income workers got some &quot;help&quot; this year from Congress too.  Congress passed a significant increase in the federal minimum wage which took effect this summer.  This is supposed to help these very people, but I suspect it backfired.  Right after it took effect, the jobless rate spiked.  Imagine that.  

I have to be fair though, in that the magnitude of the spike was boosted by another, coincident event.  Congress, in its (in)finite wisdom also passed an extension of the duration of jobless benefits of 13 weeks.  Many people managed to hold on until that also took effect before laying off the people who&#039;d been priced out of the market.  That way, instead of 26 weeks of benefits, they&#039;ll get 39 weeks instead.  The two events combined make the recent spike in the jobless rate the greatest in several years.

Remember the nine most frightening words in English?  &quot;I&#039;m from the government and I&#039;m here to help.&quot; 

Sorry for the rant, but listening to the &quot;blathering class&quot; wears on a body, and since it&#039;s an election year, it&#039;s worse than usual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You missed one thing: that&#8217;s 9.8M families, not 9.8M people.</p>
<p>However, it&#8217;s still a stretch to think that 9.8M / 28% = 35M families equates to 300M people.  That would be an average of ~8.5 people/family.  I don&#8217;t think so.</p>
<p>Also remember that what they call &#8220;poverty&#8221; is not absolute poverty.  Instead, it&#8217;s poverty relative to the population mean.  By definition, it will never go to zero unless we all earn the same wage.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve ever traveled outside the U.S., say Mexico, parts of the Caribbean, the Middle East, etc., then you&#8217;ve probably seen people who know what real, absolute poverty is and would dearly love to be upgraded to being &#8220;relatively&#8221; poor here.</p>
<p>Finally, they don&#8217;t consider the effects of all the aid programs low-income families are eligible for.  If they take full advantage of the largess of government and private aid programs, they&#8217;ll be much better off that the raw number suggest.</p>
<p>Oh yeah, low-skill, low-income workers got some &#8220;help&#8221; this year from Congress too.  Congress passed a significant increase in the federal minimum wage which took effect this summer.  This is supposed to help these very people, but I suspect it backfired.  Right after it took effect, the jobless rate spiked.  Imagine that.  </p>
<p>I have to be fair though, in that the magnitude of the spike was boosted by another, coincident event.  Congress, in its (in)finite wisdom also passed an extension of the duration of jobless benefits of 13 weeks.  Many people managed to hold on until that also took effect before laying off the people who&#8217;d been priced out of the market.  That way, instead of 26 weeks of benefits, they&#8217;ll get 39 weeks instead.  The two events combined make the recent spike in the jobless rate the greatest in several years.</p>
<p>Remember the nine most frightening words in English?  &#8220;I&#8217;m from the government and I&#8217;m here to help.&#8221; </p>
<p>Sorry for the rant, but listening to the &#8220;blathering class&#8221; wears on a body, and since it&#8217;s an election year, it&#8217;s worse than usual.</p>
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